Last weekend on our walk around the New Forest, Pete commented as we were walking through a boggy forest that it looked like a perfect example of a dell.
In my efforts to train up in the art of not getting lost I've done a couple of day courses with a navigation coach, and last time we had a great time discussing how we could anticipate how the landscape would look as we walked through it simply by paying attention to the names of places and features on the map - suffixes such as '-shaw', '-hurst', '-down', '-bourne' and many, many others. It's almost another language! Depending on the suffix of a place name we'd know to look for a line of trees, or a river, or a ridge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_forms_in_place_names_in_the_British_Isles
Your comparison of 'homely' in US English and British English really made me laugh. On an early visit by my parents to my brother and SIL's new house, my sister-in-law (from the US) was horrorstruck when my mum told her 'Oh, it's so homely!' 🫢 Over here, of course, that's a really nice thing to say! 🤣
Ohh, that's a great resource-thanks! Pete has been slowly teaching me what a lot of place names mean over the years (it started since his surname is Downs - meaning hills, obviously 🤔 !!!). We also have an English places names book that helps with learning too. I get your s-i-l confusion!!! It took me several times hearing it here before I understood there were not insults being thrown 🤣🤣🤣
The difference in language from English speakers is vast, isn't it? In each case you gave, I've grown up with the UK interpretation. but it stands to reason as Australia clung to its Mother Country well after independence and Federation. The monarchy is still 'our' monarchy, although that may change sooner rather than later. But in the meantime, my age-group are more anglo than Americanised.
The shepherd/sailor case is an odd one though. My family have always been sea folk, so I grew up with 'sailor' but my husband, who is a 4th generation farmer, uses 'shepherd'. I'll be interested to see what our little 6th generation shepherd/sailor grandson uses.
I was curious to hear what your experience was, prue, since of course Australia is much more English influenced than American. And very interesting to hear about the shepherd/sailor variation within your own family! I would expect to hear of similar geographic variations in both the US and the UK as well, so I hope more of my readers let me know!
Keep me posted on the 6th generation vocabulary choices!
Language is so interesting. Since I learned about most sayings in the US I know those but not really their UK counterparts. I did however have some issues when I first moved here because we were taught the King’s English in school in Germany which has quite a few differences from American English.
Wow, you really have had to learn two languages! Although English and American are similar, there must have been lots of surprising differences to figure out along the way. Also, you mention the King's English - is that what you called it in Germany? I ask because my partner (who is English) is having trouble switching from saying the 'Queen's English' which is how he grew up referring to it, to now saying the 'Kings English'. As you say, language is so interesting! Thanks for your observations.
Loved it, Sabrina. Am I correct in assuming that you and Pete are familiar with the work of Robert Macfarlane, perhaps my favorite living “nature writer” (hate that term), and most especially with his book Landmarks, "a field guide to the literature of nature, and a vast glossary collecting thousands of the remarkable terms used in dozens of the languages and dialects of Britain and Ireland to describe and denote aspects of terrain, weather, and nature"?
Shockingly, neither of us have heard of him so we are off to track down his book now that you suggested it! Many thanks (especially for commenting when you are currently in the foodie heaven of Italy!)
Geez, no wonder you're confused! Does Pete experience the same when he goes to the states?
In my case, I'm shocked at the differences between Spanish spoken in Colombia, the Spanish language I know the best, compared to Spanish here on the peninsula. Very nice, ordinary looking people use foul language without second thought. One would never say "culo" (derriere) in public in Colombia but here my 28-year old trainer tells me all the time to tighten or lift my culo or culote. Respectable looking ladies say "Joder!" (the F-word) as if they were saying "Oh rats!"
I haven't said "joder" in conversation and I use a more polite term for "culo." Though yesterday I watched a reel from one of the Spanish language instructors I follow with 20 different ways to say culo in Spanish. I'm studying hard.
Oh my goodness! I've always heard the Spanish languages are different between countries but had no sense of the details. You've certainly learned some colourful vocabulary! And it is interesting to notice the difference in politeness in how people speak to one another. Do you find that true in other ways people speak and treat each other? Does Spain have more relaxed social customs to match the language relative to Colombia?? Inquisitive minds want to know! And thanks for sharing your country insights as well. I love hearing about all these different language customs and meanings.
The biggest surprise arriving here relevant to language was the friendliness between people you don't know - the person in the elevator, the guy cleaning the street, someone you pass in a store or going around the corner, someone you see at the gym day after day/year after year. The neighbors in the building, for heaven's sake! I expected to find the same politeness/friendliness in Spain that I've experienced and appreciated in Latin America. Not so!! People here on the whole keep to themselves. But I don't let that stop me from greeting those I pass on the street.
My Spanish teachers says his countryment are "dry." That might be true to some extent at least until you get to know them.
This is so interesting! I wonder what causes the reticence in Spain relative to Latin America? Maybe that is more of a European-influenced temperament ? Hmmm, thanks for this. Much to consider!
Interesting to hear that Eileen! I really don't remember learning anything scientific about dells at Berkeley, do you? Dells are not really in our landscapes so much in California, or at least as a stand-out, worth studying feature.
Such a fascinating post, Sabrina!
In my efforts to train up in the art of not getting lost I've done a couple of day courses with a navigation coach, and last time we had a great time discussing how we could anticipate how the landscape would look as we walked through it simply by paying attention to the names of places and features on the map - suffixes such as '-shaw', '-hurst', '-down', '-bourne' and many, many others. It's almost another language! Depending on the suffix of a place name we'd know to look for a line of trees, or a river, or a ridge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_forms_in_place_names_in_the_British_Isles
Your comparison of 'homely' in US English and British English really made me laugh. On an early visit by my parents to my brother and SIL's new house, my sister-in-law (from the US) was horrorstruck when my mum told her 'Oh, it's so homely!' 🫢 Over here, of course, that's a really nice thing to say! 🤣
Ohh, that's a great resource-thanks! Pete has been slowly teaching me what a lot of place names mean over the years (it started since his surname is Downs - meaning hills, obviously 🤔 !!!). We also have an English places names book that helps with learning too. I get your s-i-l confusion!!! It took me several times hearing it here before I understood there were not insults being thrown 🤣🤣🤣
🤣
The difference in language from English speakers is vast, isn't it? In each case you gave, I've grown up with the UK interpretation. but it stands to reason as Australia clung to its Mother Country well after independence and Federation. The monarchy is still 'our' monarchy, although that may change sooner rather than later. But in the meantime, my age-group are more anglo than Americanised.
The shepherd/sailor case is an odd one though. My family have always been sea folk, so I grew up with 'sailor' but my husband, who is a 4th generation farmer, uses 'shepherd'. I'll be interested to see what our little 6th generation shepherd/sailor grandson uses.
I was curious to hear what your experience was, prue, since of course Australia is much more English influenced than American. And very interesting to hear about the shepherd/sailor variation within your own family! I would expect to hear of similar geographic variations in both the US and the UK as well, so I hope more of my readers let me know!
Keep me posted on the 6th generation vocabulary choices!
Language is so interesting. Since I learned about most sayings in the US I know those but not really their UK counterparts. I did however have some issues when I first moved here because we were taught the King’s English in school in Germany which has quite a few differences from American English.
Wow, you really have had to learn two languages! Although English and American are similar, there must have been lots of surprising differences to figure out along the way. Also, you mention the King's English - is that what you called it in Germany? I ask because my partner (who is English) is having trouble switching from saying the 'Queen's English' which is how he grew up referring to it, to now saying the 'Kings English'. As you say, language is so interesting! Thanks for your observations.
I was going to write the “Queen’s English” and then thought maybe that should now be the King’s English. I’m not sure what the right way is. 🤷🏻♀️
I think you are right Susi, so you answered my question!
Loved it, Sabrina. Am I correct in assuming that you and Pete are familiar with the work of Robert Macfarlane, perhaps my favorite living “nature writer” (hate that term), and most especially with his book Landmarks, "a field guide to the literature of nature, and a vast glossary collecting thousands of the remarkable terms used in dozens of the languages and dialects of Britain and Ireland to describe and denote aspects of terrain, weather, and nature"?
Shockingly, neither of us have heard of him so we are off to track down his book now that you suggested it! Many thanks (especially for commenting when you are currently in the foodie heaven of Italy!)
Oh, you’re in for a treat. I think my favorite among his books is The Old Ways: A Journey on Foot, but they’re all brilliant.
How are you doing
Geez, no wonder you're confused! Does Pete experience the same when he goes to the states?
In my case, I'm shocked at the differences between Spanish spoken in Colombia, the Spanish language I know the best, compared to Spanish here on the peninsula. Very nice, ordinary looking people use foul language without second thought. One would never say "culo" (derriere) in public in Colombia but here my 28-year old trainer tells me all the time to tighten or lift my culo or culote. Respectable looking ladies say "Joder!" (the F-word) as if they were saying "Oh rats!"
I haven't said "joder" in conversation and I use a more polite term for "culo." Though yesterday I watched a reel from one of the Spanish language instructors I follow with 20 different ways to say culo in Spanish. I'm studying hard.
Oh my goodness! I've always heard the Spanish languages are different between countries but had no sense of the details. You've certainly learned some colourful vocabulary! And it is interesting to notice the difference in politeness in how people speak to one another. Do you find that true in other ways people speak and treat each other? Does Spain have more relaxed social customs to match the language relative to Colombia?? Inquisitive minds want to know! And thanks for sharing your country insights as well. I love hearing about all these different language customs and meanings.
The biggest surprise arriving here relevant to language was the friendliness between people you don't know - the person in the elevator, the guy cleaning the street, someone you pass in a store or going around the corner, someone you see at the gym day after day/year after year. The neighbors in the building, for heaven's sake! I expected to find the same politeness/friendliness in Spain that I've experienced and appreciated in Latin America. Not so!! People here on the whole keep to themselves. But I don't let that stop me from greeting those I pass on the street.
My Spanish teachers says his countryment are "dry." That might be true to some extent at least until you get to know them.
This is so interesting! I wonder what causes the reticence in Spain relative to Latin America? Maybe that is more of a European-influenced temperament ? Hmmm, thanks for this. Much to consider!
This geographer also pictured dell to be the same as you, Heidi-like, no trees. That’s a Berkeley education I guess 🤔
Interesting to hear that Eileen! I really don't remember learning anything scientific about dells at Berkeley, do you? Dells are not really in our landscapes so much in California, or at least as a stand-out, worth studying feature.
Sabrina, you are a font of fascinating observations and information. Loved this post.
Thanks Dana! It was a fun one to research!
Yes, dell from farmer in the dell, seemed a bucolic little green valley.
And the opposites! So interesting! I learned a lot and that is such a pleasure!